A common saying in the industry is that money loves speed. So those who can A/B test faster wins.
In this episode I sit down with Scott Zetlan from Visiopt, a split testing tool that uses algorithms to run A/B tests faster so you can get wins faster.
If you’re looking to grow your supplement business then conversion rate optimization is the best way to do that. In this interview you’ll learn why.
Bobby:
Split testing is the way to make gains, the way to make more sales, the way to know your customer. Now, imagine being able to perform as many as 4,317 split tests in the time that it takes your competitors to perform a single split test. That’s exactly what Scott Zetlan, and his company Visiopt, enable you to do and much more. Scott Zetlan believes that the number one point of leverage in every business is not traffic, it’s not media buying or even copy, but something called, smart relational optimization. By plugging holes in your sales pages, your funnels and via sales, you’re able to increase conversions substantially even if you believe your pages are already fully optimized. In fact, it’s not uncommon for established so-called fully optimized offers to see 30{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, 75{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} and even 127{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} or higher increases in conversions from a single split test. Using Scott’s methods, your prospects and customers will show you with their credit cards. Exactly what has to be shown on your pages and funnels and where they must be shown to maximize your sales.
Bobby:
And today, I bring on Scott as my guest for this episode and we unpack all the details. Let’s get started. Welcome to Health Business Mastery, the Creative Thirst podcast. I’m your host, Bobby Hewitt.
Bobby:
Scott, welcome to the show.
Scott:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobby.
Bobby:
Yeah. Thanks for making the time. I know your time is very valuable. You’re super busy over at Visiopt. And thank you for just joining.
Scott:
Oh, yeah. You know my favorite subject is to talk about optimization and improving conversions, so I’m super psyched to be here.
Bobby:
Thanks. Thanks. I know you have a lot of experience in A/B testing and really I kind of built the tool, the angle tools, right? Probably out of frustration of all the other tools. I really love your tools, but I don’t also want to get into the widths. Let’s talk about A/B testing. Let’s talk about how it pertains to supplement companies and some gotchas and pitfalls, some dangers and some really just some eye opening stuff on this episode.
Scott:
Yeah, that would be awesome. I’d love to dive in.
Bobby:
Fantastic. Let’s start. Let’s start with customer, right? A of times supplement owners don’t do the research. They don’t understand the customer they’re bringing in and that has a lot of ramifications on the upsell take rates, the things you test, the type of test that you run and really it affects the business overall. Earlier, we were talking about the different emotional states of the buyer, right? A low emotional state versus a high emotional state. Let’s talk a little bit about that. Can you give the listeners a little background of what we mean by emotional state?
Scott:
Yeah.
Bobby:
And then going through it, how it pertains to supplements?
Scott:
That would be awesome. Yeah. I think out of all industries, one of at least from my experience, one of the industries that makes this mistake the most and it’s just the nature of how the industry has grown is in the supplement industry. Maybe this isn’t a basic crude of way, but I sort of talk about it as hitting the bottom of the barrel or the bottom of the bucket, not in a negative way to be negative towards the actual consumer, but when you are targeting customers, let’s take an obvious one weight loss that applies to everything that is willing to raise their hand at everything that says, “I’m going to lose 30 pounds in 30 days.” They are a low emotional state buyer.
Scott:
So a problem top of head, and there’s a lot of problems you and I could probably riff about and talk about. But one of the basic problems with that is that when they’re that type of A, I can pretty much guarantee that they’re getting a higher refund rate. I spoke with a lot of my clients and customers and friends and what will typically happen is when they refund and they return the refunds in their warehouse, they will not only have their product, but they may have their competitor’s products, which means that this same emotional state person is not only buying your supplement, but buying three or four. They are, for lack of a better word, desperate for an answer, for a solution and willing to grasp at everything. And without going too deep right now, well, one of my biggest problems with this is, that it seems good to the supplement company at the beginning.
Scott:
Boy, we’re getting a lot of customers, but like you pointed out as you brought up this question, how does that really affect your lifetime value? How does that affect your return rate? How does that affect your average order value? And so, I think that there has to be a distinct balance. And I think it starts with awareness as to who do we want as a customer. We don’t need or want everybody, right? It doesn’t make sense to our economics.
Scott:
Imagine for a moment, if we’re going after that, if we raise up the value of our customer, meaning higher in that emotional state and we lower our conversions a little bit, let’s assume that happens. I’m a believer that doesn’t have to happen, but let’s just assume that it did, like you pointed out, they’re going to take the higher emotional state. It’s going to have less returns right off the bat, means that there are going to be less credit card problems and charge back problems, which is a huge issue in the industry for anybody that’s scaling. They are going to get a higher uptake rate on upsell one and actually all the upsells. And so, and then they’re going to buy more of what they have to offer in the back end, and it just changes the economics of the business completely. And it all can be tested for, it can all be optimized for.
Bobby:
100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}. It’s the product, like you mentioned, like weight loss. It’s almost like baby the problem really. It’s the problem, but I think it’s also the offer as well, right? You can have an offer that brings in better buyers than others. And it’s also the the little niche that you’re going after, right? So there’s like the biohacker niche, right? That would be a very high emotional state buyer because they’re looking to really optimize themselves, right? They’re overachievers. Those are probably two opposite spectrums, right? The bio optimizer in the weight loss, right?
Scott:
Yup.
Bobby:
And you have everything else in between. It’s difficult to target that emotional state. It’s difficult know what that emotional state customer is. So, one of the things that I always go back to is research. So let’s chat a little bit about how we can do research on the front end, in the beginning, to get a better understanding of that emotional state.
Scott:
I love talking about this because one of the very first things that we do and is to start with the research and we happen to have our own internal. We’ll talk about some of the specifics, but ways we go about breaking down that research that we do for every client that we work with when we’re doing client work, when we’re not doing it with them, when we’re advising and they’re using our system, the same thing. And one of the biggest mistakes, and you just touched upon it is we have some extremely bright people in this industry, very, very sharp. We have some great copywriters. They understand their market and their core emotions, but by doing that and having that understanding and being able to produce a product and offer that has success. I believe that they’re leaving a lot of money on the table and back to the emotional state that they may be picking up the wrong customers or clients because of it.
Scott:
And so, it all begins with research. And so, I think that the very first thing is to say, “We don’t pretend like you don’t know your customer.” Because thinking you know your customer too well, without going back to the physical research, I’ve seen to be a huge mistake. And we weren’t big companies that know their customer that are growing, their scaling. And when we put forth to them and we don’t do this as a product, it’s just our starting step, our research and we’re just going over it in a conference and a Zoom call and most of them, “Where’d you get that? How’d you get that? Can you send that over to our ad department?” So I think couple of things, I was just on a broader scope like that, if you go through the research and I believe it’s both competitive and the psychographic type of research to really understand your customer, it does a few things for you.
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Scott:
Number one, can permeate your entire company. So the same type of research can help whoever’s writing the ads, as well as who is writing the copy, as well as who’s optimizing the copy and even comes from all the way down to the customer sport. I’m going to believe that whether you’re optimizing and all of this should permeate and entire company be involved. There’s so much data out there, and we’re not talking about going in and being a data nerd. Actually you can act, you can go into deep dives and deep holes, but there are really easy ways if you spend the time to figure out the emotional state, what kind of emotional triggers, what is their real problem, right, not the problem that they’re discussing out in public, what are their value propositions that are most important to them?
Scott:
And then we go deeper. What does that look like? So, I can go down rabbit hole, but yeah, I’m a huge believer of research and I think that if companies did one thing differently and anybody listening to this call took the time and went back to the research as if they didn’t know the customer, they would see phenomenal growth from it and be very surprised as to what they had. So I know that wasn’t specifics about research. We can dive in and talk about it, but I just… I love to talk about the importance of it, because over and over again, I don’t see companies doing it and when they’re doing it, I don’t think they’re doing it right.
Bobby:
I completely agree. So much of a supplement industry is really copying the other guy, right? Let’s take a look at their funnel. Let’s copy the same kind of hooks, the same kind of sales letter, the same kind of emotional beads, et cetera. I look at supplement falls all the time and I see so many similarities between different companies on even the order page. So many people are just ripping off Gundry, and it’s ridiculous. And I know Gundry is not the best out there when they do test, they really don’t do a lot of tests because their stuff converts really well on the front end for other reasons, but they really don’t have to. So they’re copying things that they don’t know if is working or not as one of the big problems.
Scott:
I love that you just said that. It’s very true. Most of the companies, I didn’t mean to cut you up. But most of the companies that I talked to when you talk, “Yeah. We research,” and they do exactly what you just said. I don’t care what the term is used now, but funnel hacking or whatever. Yeah. We spend and I’ve had this, just a week ago. Yeah. Once a week, we get together and we pull apart another funnel. Well, you hit on a huge problem there. The guy you’re copying may not know what’s working, why it’s working, right? So you are caught may not be doing testing, so maybe leaving a lot of money on the table, there’s stuff may be working for a whole host of reasons, like you just pointed out, not the least being, you can’t see their economics on the back end, right? So we don’t know what’s going on or in Gundry, they have the celebrity.
Scott:
There’s a lot of different factors that go into it. And in the supplement industry sometimes good enough is good enough. But I see a big problem with that, and my problem is that as ad networks get more and more competitive as more competitors come into the market, as we have issues with iOS and algorithms and targeting become more difficult, as the market in essence becomes more mature. Good enough, we’ll no longer be good enough. And that’s where these companies start to see themselves doing well and running into problems. Because if they’re not improving, if they’re not getting better, if they’re not differentiating on their own, they’re on a slippery slope down. And with the potential, not an economist, but with the potential of recession or tough times heading, and by the way, the health market always does well. But with that coming into play and people evaluating their dollars even more carefully, all of this becomes super important.
Scott:
And there was one other thing that you really hit upon from a pure optimization standpoint that I love, differentiation, right? It goes back to really copywriting 101. It goes back to some of the classics, right? Eugene Schwartz in Breakthrough Advertising, which should be the Bible, right, for marketing. He talks about, and I forget the wording he used. And if you are copying other people’s hooks, other people’s ideas, if things look too similar, you will have some success. And maybe you’re doing really, really well now. But let’s just think about how much money you are leaving on the table potentially, and how much profits by doing that. And so, I think the lesson there is aside from research thing, from our point of view, I believe from there, look, do all that research funnel hacking or reviewing your competitors can be an initial start, but it’s just the start and you have to dig deeper to find out how you can differentiate and that’s when you’re going to see the breakthroughs.
Bobby:
100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}. And I think those days are actually long gone, right? The days of just slapping up a funnel and white labeling or drop shipping and copying someone else’s funnel, they’re over. Already like 10 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah. You could absolutely do that and make a killing, but not anymore.
Scott:
Yeah, for a whole host of reasons, right? We talked about a competition, compliance, market sophistication. This is by the way, going back to Eugene Schwartz, who again, I think should be everybody’s sparrow, at least it’s a blueprint. He talks about this, right? Markets are going to sophisticate. Get more and more sophisticated. The internet becomes more and more sophisticated. And by the way, what I’m about to say, I don’t take this as the golden rule, but all you have to do is see one of the supplement manufacturers throw up one of their traditional VSLs onto Facebook and look at people’s comments. Now, granted, there’s a lot of trolls, I get it. Granted that isn’t the end all, but see how people think about the 45-minute or one-hour presentation. Think of how they think about the ones that aren’t educational and start reading through some of those comments. And you start to at least get a feel for what your consumer, right?
Scott:
That grumpy old man or grumpy old woman is the way I’d tell him, look at it, right? So what type of thing? The more sophisticated buyer, somebody higher up to tie this into our emotional state, yes, I agree. You can have weight loss, but there’s a difference selling to a guy in weight loss that’s low emotional state that says, “I don’t care. I’m going to believe everything. I’m going to take this pill because it’s the easiest my magic button.” Versus try selling to in a female on the women’s market, which are much more sophisticated than men, which that they did. They evaluate products in a whole different way and try to sell somebody that says the first reaction or to your mother or to your wife. And most of it, a lot of the claims that are being made and the way things are being sold and how all of it’s being presented, they’re going to shut it off.
Scott:
And so, I’ll tie this into one last thing and I know I can talk a mile minute, so forgive me. But you know, a VSL running on Google, let’s say running a lot of traffic may be getting 0.30 conversion and they’re successful. Okay. And I know people wildly successful spending seven figures a month on Google, but let’s put this in perspective and think about this for a minute. That means that they lost 99.7{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} of the other people that came to their page, came to their sales funnel didn’t buy. And so as the economics, which I think is what we’re talking about gets tougher. That’s no longer going to work for probably a whole host of reasons that goes a lot deeper than probably you and I have time for in this conversation.
Bobby:
Yeah. 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}. Let’s talk a little about the economics of testing, right? Because a lot of people don’t look at funnel economics at all and it’s one of the things that I teach all the time. Looking at the profitability of every step in the funnel, really understanding how much it’s contributing to the overall day one revenue and lifetime value revenue on the back end. What are some of your suggestions or how do you view funnel economics?
Scott:
I think that’s a phenomenal point and you’re right. People generally look at testing and optimization in a very simplistic way. Just they haven’t been taught just to back up for a second. They’re used to testing headline one versus headline two. There are some more sophisticated companies, but by and large, even though that’s what the owners do, they’re used to throwing up VSL one versus VSL two and one wins or one loses, without understanding that everything in their funnel or the way we view it, everything on funnel and everything in the page is a system that all works together. So, the first thought that I had while you were talking that… and asking the question was that what people need to understand is what takes place out here at the beginning of a funnel has direct impact on profits at the end of the funnel.
Scott:
So I think part of the answer is let’s take a simple example in the supplement space, a typical funnel would have advertorial pre-sale page leading to let’s say a VSL, and then the checkout upsell one, upsell two, whatever and a thank you note. I can tell you over and over, without exception that testing on the pre-sale page will have direct impact on profitability 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} of the time, right? We’re not talking about rewriting the whole thing or whatever, but that’s a whole topic for a different story. But what everybody has to understand is the connection. So when we test, and I think that anybody listening should pay attention there, one of the biggest mistakes is that they’re testing for, “Well, we want to push more people to our VSL.” This is just for compliance. We’re doing this so keep Google happy.
Scott:
And so we’re only looking for our click through rate. Well, I can tell you, and I’m sure from your experience, the same thing in this one example that without exception, test after test, after test, the one that gets the highest click through rate is usually, and I would be willing to say 99{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} of the time are higher, not the version that is the most profitable. And so pushing people through to parts of your funnel for the sake of pushing people through to parts of your funnel is a mistake. And this all ties in right to our, how do you test the value of a buyer? How do you test the emotional state? How do you improve and lift the overall economics of a business?
Scott:
So I would say first part one is to understand and to test. And so when you are, and you should be testing every step along your funnel, I think one of the most important things to always test that in relation to how is that affecting actual sales and actual profits. And the second part that’s popping in mind is that testing in general, when you’re testing everything on a page and again, I think that’s a discussion for another, “Hey, we’re big believers in testing. Literally, everything on the page, because every page is a system.” The headline combination with the splash image combination with the CTA or whatever else is on the page, all combined to produce a certain result, so as a system. But I think that the important part here is to understand is that you’re not only looking for simply conversions, but things like average order value, which are going to affect day one conversion. So I’ll give you a maybe shared clip, really quick story, but just to illustrate this, maybe put a pin in it.
Scott:
We just completed a test for a company. We test multiple things at once. But at one of big part of it was in how we presented the quantity options, right? To try to push through additional quantities and I won’t get into the details because it’s really not important but the understanding is that when we got done, they got a 33{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} increase in conversion rate, so that’s actual conversion rate. But more importantly, they got an 87{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} increase on our OAS, return on ad spend. So I think that what I’m getting at is that everything ties together when you increase conversions by X percent, maybe it’s 5{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, maybe it’s 10{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, maybe it’s 30{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}. It doesn’t matter. It tends to, if you’re doing it right and testing for the right things, multiply itself throughout the funnel.
Scott:
And so, pushing people to a funnel that are barely making the margins and pushing more of those people may make you go broke faster or may make clear. In this case, in this one example, but it happens over and over and I know you see it when you’re focusing on the economics, a small increase, well, it’s a big increase compared to… that makes a difference in scenario. We tend to deal with large increases but aside from that, our OAS is what to pay attention to, that is the piece that’s invisible that people don’t see small levers up here can make big changes up there. And then, the last is specific. So the way you would do it, if I want to give somebody specifics is again, paying attention to what’s actually happening in sales. I think that’s step one. I think step two is things like, how can you improve the quantity and your pricing, right? These are some obvious things.
Scott:
Usually if you’re focusing, we take a top down front back approach, which means we take the top of the page down the front of the funnel back. People approach things in different ways. But I would say one of the biggest needle movers from an AOV is your uptake on both your order bump and upsell one. And that usually will set the tone for the rest of it. But I know that was a lot of different things, but really the truth of the matter is being aware of it and understanding that your job isn’t just to increase conversions and on a click through rate, for example, but to understand and pay attention to how is that affecting your average order value and you can quickly see your lifetime value, but if people need an instant and we need to go back to our first conversation, our first part of this conversation about emotional, that’s an indicator, right?
Scott:
One of the indicators that you’re doing a better job is not simply that you’re pushing more people through a funnel, but that they’re spending more through a funnel. And that is a really good indicator that you are doing a better job of getting a higher quality customer.
Bobby:
Yeah. And part of the reason, or some of the reasons why you mentioned that. I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there as far as testing, how to test. And really a lot of the fault is on a lot of the testing tools. They want you to run a test as fast as possible so that you can run another test, so that you can continue with them next month and pay for the tool. But a lot of people don’t have the traffic to really run a test. The people with the traffic, maybe wasting tests like you said or focusing on smaller levers because they want to get through tests faster. That’s one of the things I really love about Visiopt and it’s a smart relational algorithm built into the tool. Tell me a little bit more about that and how people can take advantage of that.
Scott:
Sure. So couple of things, before I even say that there is that I’ll just add a tip in here is because I think it was tied into what you do. You want big swings, right? If you want to get in and out of tests quickly, the key is to get big swings. There’s no other way around that. In other words, if you are getting 4{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, 5{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} increase, which by the way for a business doing volume, that’s… it’s all about gains, right? It’s all about continual improvement and that’s good. But the problem with that is that it’s going to take you a long time to get in and out of a test. And a mistake that people make is getting out of that type of a test too quickly, assuming they have a winner and they do this a few times and what ends up happening eventually more times than not is the test cross, meaning what they thought they had a winner really isn’t a true winner and it’s all because there’s a tremendous amount of misinformation out there.
Scott:
You mentioned our smart relational algorithm. So Visiopt is a optimization suite, a tool, but one of functionalities is to get in and out of test fast, to get smarter faster. And we believe in doing that a couple of things we believe in testing the relationship, as I mentioned before, meaning you don’t want to just test headline one versus headline two, or worse, making a bunch of changes to a page and have page A versus page B and not have any understanding of which of those variables is actually making any impact. Our smart relational algorithm in simple terms, I don’t want this to sound like hyperbole, but I the question I usually will ask is, well, if you can do 4,317 split tests in the time your competitor does one, right, with no additional traffic, who’s going to win? Who’s going to get smarter faster?
Scott:
And so in its simplest core terms, that is one of the functionalities of Visiopt without having to have any experience in multivariate testing, without having to have a technical team or the technical backup, you’re able to test a lot of stuff fast and do so without any additional traffic. And when you do this properly, you end up getting large swings. Swings of 20{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, 30{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, 50{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, 200{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} differences for what people thought were fully optimized offers. When you see swings like that, if you see a swing of let’s take a lower end 30{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} or 40{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} versus your test that’s really doing 5{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} or 7{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} or 10{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} difference. You can then get in and out of the test quicker. Now, we have a bunch of other tools and functions that enable you to do that even quicker that go beyond I think the scope of this tool.
Scott:
But we’ve been developing and working on one thing for the past eight years, and that is all about helping companies improve their conversions. And so, if we had to say one thing from the rooftops for everybody to hear our mission, really, if that’s what it is to tell companies, we work with you and I work with companies that have phenomenal copywriters at their disposal. They have many of them, some don’t, some do, great teams. There has not yet been an offer that they’re running and running successfully to cold traffic that hasn’t had, what I call holes in the bucket, leaky bucket, right? That isn’t missing out on conversions. And I like to tell people, depending on where you are in the optimization of your offer or success of your offer, right? If you don’t have those five and six figure copywriters to spend on copy, because you just don’t you think about the type of improvements that you can see.
Scott:
So we just want everybody to understand that they’re leaving a lot of money on the table. And that beyond that, I think that or I know that if you can focus on one thing in your business, and I know everybody wants to focus on traffic and where can I get the next traffic and am I is so and so allowing my supplement traffic to go through or is somebody shutting off or what if Facebook changed in the algorithm? If you can focus on one lever and spend 15 minutes a day focusing on what can be your next test, your next conversion test, regardless how sophisticated or not, I can tell you that you will go leaps and bounds above your competitors and more importantly maybe make your business much more stable, especially in what may be a bumpy economy.
Bobby:
You’re absolutely right. As things get harder to sell, because people are tighter with their wallets as traffic becomes more and more expensive because the big buoys are squeezing out. Everybody and want to own that as tracking on those traffic platforms becomes more complicated with the removal of cookies. It’s like the perfect storm of a lot of people are going to get cut out. They’re going to get removed from the business and the waiting stay in the game is optimization.
Scott:
Yeah. 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}. It doesn’t sound sexy, right? But money is sexy. That’s why when you see social media and so-called gurus, and they’re all pushing what is sexy? Traffic is sexy. Talking about talk TikTok, coming out and being the latest platform is sexy. But the truth is you and I have both seen from behind the scenes, what really is changing those levers, regardless of what people are talking about in a mastermind or online or they are what really is moving those levers, is really what’s in your control. You can’t control changes in the Facebook algorithm or Google’s change or whatever happened to it. But what you can control, 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, is the experience that takes place on the landing page and on your funnels. And it’s the ultimate success because people are going to vote with their pocketbooks of wallet and tell you which version of that page is best by pulling out their credit card and putting anything.
Scott:
And so, there’s no doubt as to what is working or what’s not working. And so, yeah, that I think is by far the biggest message. If you can scream it from the rooftops and give people that it’s going to save companies or help successful companies grow, it’s really to focus on optimization and put more of their time, more of their effort and more of their focus onto this. The traffic will take care of themselves. I’m reminded of a quote that I don’t know who said this, I’d love to be able to give them credit, but even the professionals forget this, right? Amateurs focus on traffic professionals, focus on conversions. And I heard that one time and it stuck, and it’s absolutely true. When you take care of the conversions, the traffic is easy.
Bobby:
It’s funny if you think about it because business owner wants the same thing that the supplement buyer wants, right? Supplement buyer wants magic pill. The business owner wants an easy button, right? So the supplement buyer is always looking for that next thing, “What’s the next pill that’s going to work? This one didn’t.” And the business owner is looking for that next… what’s that next traffic source? What’s that next big time copywriter that I could pay the six figures to? And they just want a magic button, like both of both sides of that market.
Scott:
That’s really smart. It’s really true, right? And by the way, this is not a hook. We all can fall victim to it. So we have to… Whether it’s a mantra, however you have to be aware of it and really laser focus and those that laser focus. By the way, to that point and which I love. I love because it really is. And that isn’t to say that business owners are a low emotional state. It’s just that everybody wants that easy button. From a conversion standpoint, from, from a standpoint of selling, yes, you have to sell the easy button, but it has to be with some reality, both from a compliance standpoint and to elevate the quality of your buyer. From the business owner’s standpoint, you are going to spend your time, which is probably your number one resource and your efforts in the wrong areas. And you are 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c} right.
Scott:
I like to say the biggest hidden secret is everybody talks about testing. Very few actually do it. And those that do it, don’t do it enough. And those that do it, don’t do it right. Probably because they get frustrated for a lot of the reasons like we’ve touched upon during this call. It’s a probably a reason they probably just don’t see the success so it takes too long. But I can assure you over and over again, and I know you can as well, because you’ve seen this hands on, it’s that one lever. And so, if somebody were going to give you a lever to change your business and to focus… By the way, the other thought is those who have worked with agencies and add agencies, what do they do? They don’t build a business. They look for proven offers, right? The intensity I’m thinking of who it’s the offer stupid.
Scott:
Well, another way of putting that is you have a great offer that is converting. And so, what we’re talking about is improving that offer, improving that conversion all the way through the step way that makes, like we said, everything else easy. It’s the 80, 20 rule. That’s your 80{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}.
Bobby:
It sounds simple when you put it that way. And it is one lever. I totally agree with everything you said. I see it as like a tapestry, right? Because you pull that one lever and now that pulls that thread out and now another thread gets weaker or another thread gets stronger or you maybe interweave a golden thread in that tapestry, right? And that affects everything else. It’s like a tapestry or spinning plates. There are many things going on at the same time. And that’s-
Scott:
I agree with that and that’s why the optimization has never really done. By the way, I love that analogy. I’m thinking about a story when I was a little kid, we were going into a formal event. I just remember this like a dream. And my mother pulled or my father probably pulled the string on my suit, a little kid’s suit. And of course the whole hole ended up in the suit. So as you’re pulling the thread, that’s really what you’re talking about, what other holes are uncovered. I agree. It’s easy to focus on, but not simple. I think that if you have the right mindset and the right tools and understand that it’s not a one and done situation, but something that you should… I think the only solution to what you’re referring to is again, selfishly, we believe having the right tools to do this properly, but above and beyond that, the mindset that it’s not one and done that you’re going to continually optimize.
Scott:
And like I mentioned, with the believer in being all part of a system, right? That you have to pay attention to the changes you made here, how they’re affecting. I think in part we talked the rest of your funnel and maybe even deeper. That’s all you did, I think most of the people listening to this would be better off. If you’re even more sophisticated, you will continue to monitor and see how this affects things like lifetime value, meaning you’re one month, three month or six month depending on the repeat buyers and what you’re used to. That’s another whole other thing that we can talk about another time, but optimizing for how often they come back and repeat files and all that thing. But I take your point and I agree with it 100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}.
Scott:
My goal is not to make it seem like, “Yeah, we’re just here pulling levers and like being at the slot machines and the jackpot keeps running out.” I’m passionate about the fact that I believe that when we look at a business and every part of the business is important, having good copy, having media buyers, having good customer support, having good product differentiating, right? At the core, having a good product that actually works the way you say it is. There’s a lot of moving parts that can all get affected beyond even the funnel. But I do believe that if they focused on once they have that good product that they’re trying to get out in the world, that optimization piece, and it was something that they did and the good news is anybody can do it and you can monitor the results, you’re not guessing. I think it’s the number one worthwhile endeavor that they should and can be working on. And I think it helps take blinders to all these bells and whistles and shiny objects that we were talking about.
Bobby:
100{680c5f9cb46a7a54731929069920ce17b7cd4b3b32dcb36e8e9c5cdd0d2a610c}, Scott. This has been great. Can you tell people where they can get a hold of you? How they can learn more of about Visiopt? Can you talk to us about a little bit about the tool? I know there’s elements in the tool that are built in that don’t come with other tools like heat maps and video recordings and-
Scott:
Sure. I’ll just do this briefly because I just want to provide value. Visiopt is an enterprise level optimization suite, but you don’t need an enterprise level budget. So at its core is the testing algorithm. We allow you to test a lot of stuff fast. Now, it goes much deeper than that. We have a lot of tools. One, we call our smart relational algorithm and we have you can do modern AV. You can do all kinds of testing without touching any code. One piece of code in your site, it’s lightning fast. You’ll be able to literally test everything down to the scripts on your page without actually touching the page. You can create different variations of your page without needing a designer, right, without physically creating the page. So at the core we have the testing algorithm. You touched upon or we touched upon here the importance of think tracking getting more difficult to do with the networks.
Scott:
And so built in there. We have a campaign tracker and both the campaign tracker and our testing module uses what we call, lossless tracking, which basically means it doesn’t matter how iOS changes. It doesn’t matter if somebody clears their cookies, you’re able to track accurately and part of a big part of optimization. I like to call it observational and optimizational. It’s understanding actually what’s going on with your numbers, which enables you not only to optimize the site, but optimize the ad portion and you can’t go blind, right? You’re generally doing, so we have a campaign module. Like you mentioned on the observational side, which is tools that enable you to see what’s going on in your site and come up with in part, these experiments that you and I are talking about and what goes into these inputs is what we call, Visiopt insights. And so built in there.
Scott:
And as part of the tool free, we have insights which includes heat maps, scroll maps and recordings, which really give you an in depth view of really what’s going on your site. And so you can easily, you will notice sticking points. You will notice people clicking in areas that they shouldn’t click and the whole host of other tools that are available there. And then lastly, we have a landing page module, which we like to say is built by designers for designers. It’s enables you to brand your site with lightning fast pages. You have no restrictions, meaning some of the landing page builders have some limitations and sort of block, like you can control every aspect of your site landing page. It loads to your site so we don’t keep it hostage. It’s like creating fast HTML pages, but at the core.
Scott:
Everything we do is about optimizing, about you having the proper data to make the proper decisions and being able to test those really fast and get smarter than your competitors faster. And so, I appreciate your giving me an opportunity to at least give an overview. If anybody’s interested and they want to have a talk, they can go to visiopt.com. That’s V-I-S-I-O-P-T dot com and we would love to chat. Take a look around and hit us up, and we’d love to hop on a call or chat and see how we may be able to apply this to your business.
Bobby:
Fantastic. Scott, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Scott:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it. It’s a lot of fun.
Bobby:
Creative Thirst is a direct response digital agency, focusing on conversion rate optimization and A/B testing. We work with dietary supplement companies who are struggling to maximize the profitability of their funnels so they can scale. Through the last seven years in the online health space, we’ve optimized many dietary supplement businesses. And in that time we’ve uncovered the three critical funnels for success. We put together that information in a free digital download called, the three funnels every health supplement business needs to build a multimillion dollar empire. You can get that free report by going to creativethirst.com. Scroll down to the appropriate section and click on the blue, get your ebook button.
THERE ARE THREE FUNNELS EVERY HEALTH SUPPLEMENT BUSINESS NEEDS TO BUILD A MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR EMPIRE…
Through our work in the online health space, we’ve had the opportunity to observe hundreds of health businesses.
We’ve uncovered the three critical funnels that makes the difference between an average supplement company just selling on Amazon and a multi-million dollar health empire and compiled our findings in a short concise eBook.
